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California Secretary McPeak Announces State Grants Targeting Illegal Street Racing
#1
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/...39317.html
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#2
all that is a waste of money, the system they have is working, thats why street racing is dying
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#3
they should spend money trying to catch real criminals instead of high school kids racing their cars
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#4
k u sound just like every other person....HIGH SCHOOL KIDS are the reason why street racing caught the attention of mass cops...
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#5
ViEtNaMeeH Wrote:k u sound just like every other person....HIGH SCHOOL KIDS are the reason why street racing caught the attention of mass cops...
no, High School kids were causing attention, street racing is dead compared to what it used to be, California has WAAYY bigger problems than street racing which that money could have been put towards
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#6
BOOstGhost Wrote:no, High School kids were causing attention, street racing is dead compared to what it used to be, California has WAAYY bigger problems than street racing which that money could have been put towards


u know how much money they make off racers lol....its alot they can use that fix the roads lol
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#7
Here is how a street racing grant comes about (or any other grant for LE for that matter)

Citizens call up their local police department and local government to complain that street racers are a problem.

Parents of dead kids call up their local politicians, the media, state and federal politicians, and complain that street racing is a problem.

Owners of businesses vandalized by street racers call up their local police and politicians and complain street racing is a problem.

The media reports on street racing and street racing deaths educating the public who then call and complain that street racing is a problem.

City and County public works agencies who fix broken curbs, snapped sign posts, repaint stripes on roadways, and any other damage caused by street racing complain to their government bosses that street racing is a problem

All these result in the citizens and politicians putting pressure on law enforcement to eradicate street racing. Most law enforcement agencies only have so many officers, time, money, and resources. LE would much rather be catching robbers, burglars, and rapists. But, LE are public servants so they do what the people that pay their salaries ask them to do. This takes away resources for other enforcement. Task forces are formed, beat cops are sent to racing locations, laws are tightened etc. After a while, some other aspect of law enforcement suffers because of the time and resources dedicated to adressing the complaints of street racing. As a result, the victims of those other activities want to know why they aren't getting the level of service they used to. The answer to this is to provide LE with more resources so that they don't have to "rob Peter to pay Paul". A grant is created and cities and counties can apply for the grant to add to their already limited budget to address the problem.

So, grants for street racing come from pressure from the majority. They are created as a direct result of street racing activities putting a larger burden on law enforcement which robs them of the ability to do other things. It isn't that street racing is the most heinous of crimes. It is simply that it is one more item on law enforcements list of things to do. The analogy would be for anyone who has a job, you know you can only do so much. If the boss keeps giving you more and more assignments, things start falling off your plate. The only solution is to hire another person to help out, or start dumping other assignments in favor of the new assignment.

As for making money off of racers, that is a myth. In fact, if you add up all ther revenue from every ticket ever issues in any City, County, or State, it doesn't even come close to paying for the costs of law enforcement. It helps slightly, but your tax dollars are what support all levels of government service.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#8
They should make those grants into small racetracks where there is a problem. Do like those high schools did on weekends. How did that all work out PNG?
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#9
I heard it's 5million and it seems like they're only doing it to make money off of people. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/576.asp
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#10
Given the fact that citation revenue is split up between the feds, state, county, and city issueing the citation, it would take them a hundred years to make up the 5 million dollars they are spending in grant funds. The purpose of the grant is exactly what it purports, to eradicate street racing. Trust me, most cops would much rather spend 5 million on programs that target hardened criminals. But, your do what your local taxpayers demand of you. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. The problem with spending that money on making a track is that it doens't get rid of street racing. Even San Diego will admit that street racing still exists. It does give an outlet to some, but even folks on this very board admit that they will still street race because it is cheap, exciting, convenient, and part of the "mystique". Putting in a track mainly does one thing though, it takes away completely the excuse in court that there is no alternative. I can only imagine that the public and the courts in San Diego have absolutely no sympathy for anyone caught street racing given the availability of other options.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#11
ok but lookng for tinted windows and stickers? they at leas to need be really educated before they pull shit like this. thats gonna effect people who dont even know what street racing is
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#12
Well, if the tinted windows and stickers are a VC violation, it really has nothing to do with the grant. Officers pull over people now with those violations. The grant will provide hopefully provide education for officers to better understand intake, exhaust, and engine modifications. Isn't that something everybody complains about here? The fact that officers don't have enough training to recognize when a modification is legal, and when it isn't? If an officer has more expertise in recognizing the difference, there will be less tickets written and trips to the ref for folks who like the lifestyle, but don't neccessarily make illegal mods right?
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#13
there talking about identifying street racers by stickers and tint. its two different things. i guess it really doesnt matter though because shopping lists on the side of your car is gay and its your own fault if your in violation for tint. It just feels like the lawmakers are getting out of control. I cant even skate ramps in my own driveway without being hassled.
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#14
My personal favorite from the above article:

Quote:California law does not require police to measure sound levels objectively. Instead, according to the California Highway Patrol, the "citation is based on officer's judgment."

If this is true, the determination of whether or not the sound emitted by my exhaust is legal comes down to the human ear that is attached to a CHP officer? You have got to be kidding me.

I know, I know, he'll send me to a "ref" to have my car checked and the sound level measured so that the ticket will either be upheld or dismissed. Either way, I'm out at least $35 for the test even though my aftermarket exhaust is perfectly legal.

Quote:San Diego officers come to train other departments how to look out for what they believe to be tell-tale signs of illegal modification such as window tinting, large spoilers, extra gauges or racing stickers. Police say this gives them probable cause to stop and inspect a vehicle and its engine compartment.

Really. So the stickers on my rear window for my friend's shop and drift day events are considered probable cause? And here I thought that the VC stated that as long as I have 2 functioning side mirrors, the view out the rear window is irrelavant.

Moving on to wings (or spoilers), what about Subaru STi's, Mitsubishi Evolutions, Toyota Supras, and Dodge Neon SRT-4's with huge wings form the factory? Are they going to be stopped and searched as well?

How is this not profiling again?
"Racing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague longing for something salty" - Peter Egan
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#15
Jaggorri Wrote:How is this not profiling again?
it is. its "street racer" profiling
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#16
Quote:San Diego officers come to train other departments how to look out for what they believe to be tell-tale signs of illegal modification such as window tinting, large spoilers, extra gauges or racing stickers. Police say this gives them probable cause to stop and inspect a vehicle and its engine compartment.


I'd be highly surprised if this is an accurate quote from San Diego PD. The US Constitution, the Ca. State Constitution, the Penal Code and the Vehicle Code did not change because of a grant. In fact, profiling has been pretty much eradicated all throughout the U.S. as described above, starting in New Jersey. How could anyone go back to the argument that started profiling originally which was that affecting a look or lifestyle was enough for a legal detention? Just the use of the term "probable cause", instead of "reasonable suspicion" in the article makes me suspicious. You need reasonable suspicions to stop or detain, then probable cause to search or arrest. As long as a modification done to a car is legal, it cannot be used to justify a search or detention alone. If the modification is illegal however, it can be used, in conjunction with other factors, for a detention and then perhaps for an inspection. So, officers may be educated in two ways. One, to be better able to determine whether a visible mod is legal or illegal. Two, once the detention is made for an illegal mod, is there any other factors that would justify a search.

On the subject of using judgement on loud exhaust, this is already done in many other violations as it is. If an officer stakes out a stop sign looking for people running it, they will use their judgement to determine whether or not a person came to a complete stop or not. There will be no independent evidence other than their own eyes. If an officer sees a person make an "unsafe lane change", that will be a judgement call on the officers part as to why it was unsafe. There is no independent evidence other than the officer using his senses to evaluate the violation. If an officer writes a tag for exhibition of speed, it will be based upon what they observed and heard. Most violations are written based upon an officer using their sense of hearing, sight and sometimes smell, in conjunction with their training and experience. This is no different with a loud exhaust violation. The officer uses their sense of hearing coupled with training.

I would actually think that folks would welcome some other avenue for evalutating the validity of a citation prior to going to court and arguing their case in front of a judge. In most circumstances, the first time a person can contest their citation is in court. Most people do not have the expertise to argue against a trained officer who has no real motivation to write a bad ticket to begin with. On the other hand, if a person goes to the ref, and the ref decides that the officer may have been close but no cigar, then a court appearance might not even be necessary. It would be nice to equip every police car with a db meter, but that is pricey. Given the total amount of citations issued for loud exhaust in a major metropolitan area, the return on investment for a city would be minimal. Spending excessive taxpayer money on the front end just to avoid a very small percentage of mistakes isn't efficient. Especially when there are two safeguards against mistakes on the back end.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#17
SgtGrant Wrote:On the subject of using judgement on loud exhaust, this is already done in many other violations as it is. If an officer stakes out a stop sign looking for people running it, they will use their judgement to determine whether or not a person came to a complete stop or not. There will be no independent evidence other than their own eyes. If an officer sees a person make an "unsafe lane change", that will be a judgement call on the officers part as to why it was unsafe. There is no independent evidence other than the officer using his senses to evaluate the violation. If an officer writes a tag for exhibition of speed, it will be based upon what they observed and heard. Most violations are written based upon an officer using their sense of hearing, sight and sometimes smell, in conjunction with their training and experience. This is no different with a loud exhaust violation. The officer uses their sense of hearing coupled with training.

Good point, but herein lies the problem- Humans can be trained to judge speed by vision within +/- 5mph, sometimes even better. This has been shown by the CHP where their officers visually estimate a vehicle's speed, then back said estimation up with radar/laser. While this is all well and good, my problem lies in the fact that the human ear has a very difficult time distinguishing dB levels within +/- 10dB. There are people with perfect pitch that can pick out musical notes like you or I would see colors, but volume is a different story. Knowing this, I have a hard time with a CHP officer giving me a ref ticket and me spending $35 because he deems my exhaust as being too loud.

I understand that it would not be financially prudent for CA to issue dB meters to every car, calibrate them on a normal basis, then have a standard testing procedure for each officer to abide by when they decide to test a car's exhaust sound. That doesn't mean I can't be annoyed about it though. Wink
"Racing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague longing for something salty" - Peter Egan
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#18
Quote:That doesn't mean I can't be annoyed about it though.


I can relate, smog laws annoy me to no end.......
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#19
5 million federal dollars has been put in to cracking down on modified cars in California! this should explain it all... http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/576.asp
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#20
get the fuck out of california before cops get you
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#21
Let's try to keep this all in one thread, shall we?
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#22
they should just use that money to build a free drag strip or a free drift area... then their street racing problems are over
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#23
silvia_drift19 Wrote:they should just use that money to build a free drag strip or a free drift area... then their street racing problems are over

"If they don't give us free cigarettes and beer, we're going to keep robbing liquor stores!"
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#24
PNG Wrote:"If they don't give us free cigarettes and beer, we're going to keep robbing liquor stores!"

Couldn't have said it better myself. You know, all this hand wringing and hysteria is a waste of energy. There is a philosphy that took hold a while back, and has been progressing steadily into all aspects of the criminal justice system. It is a philosphy supported by the majority, and quite frankly pretty fair. The philosphy is simply this. Society as a majority decides what laws they choose to enact and follow. This is done by direct vote, and legislators elected by the majority. Basiclly put, all the laws on the books are done so with the complete approval of the societal majority. However, a minority of people decide to disobey the laws enacted by the majority.

Traditionally, when a person was apprehended, prosecuted, and then incarcerated or punished, society as a whole bore the burden of this process. All of our tax dollars went to pay for law enforcement to catch them, District Attorneys to prosecute them, Public Defenders to defend them (if needed), Courts to try them, prisons to hold them, and probation/parole departments to monitor them. Each one of our tax dollars support this process and we have as a majority been content with it over the years. However, there came a point when a lot of people finally said "Hey, why in the world am I paying out of my hard earned money for the stupidity of somebody else? Why is it I am a law abiding citizen but I am penalized for the lack of self-control on somebody elses part?". As a result, the concept of heavier penalties, restitution and asset seizure began to be more popular.

The simple premise behind raising fines, seizing cars, and seizing assets is to offset some of the costs of our criminal justice system. It is very expensive for a city, county, state, or federal system to support all of the agencies and entities that we as a society have decided to put into place to regulate ourselves. And, these agencies are usually dealing with a small minority of problem children while the majority of society goes about their business without any problems. So, this idea took hold with drug dealers first. Any item found to be used in the criminal enterprise, and any fruits of the criminal enterprise labor was taken and sold to defray costs. Then this spread out to prostitution enforcement. It now is in place with DUI drivers, problem businesses, high tech criminal activities, etc. It was just a matter of time before it began moving into other illegal activities like street racing.

The bottom line here is, your fellow citizens don't like when you violate the law that they put into place. They don't like their police departments dedicating limited resources to street racing problems when those resources could be better used. Your fellow citizens do not like opening their wallets and continueing to pay more and more to the government in order to focus on the small minority of people who cannot control themselves. So, things like grants are given from the federal government to agencies and jurisdictions usually with the caveat that they eradicate the problem quickly and hopefully also find a way to recoup some of their losses to make it revenue neutral and cost recovery only. No matter how many citatons they write, cars they seize, and assets they take, they will probably never recoup the money that every taxpayer is shelling out to fund it.

Lastly, a legal track is great. However, it will never eradicate street racing. It will provide a place for some, but the problem will not go away. San Diego and other locations have legal racing, yet they still have major problems with street racing. Philosophically many police agencies and municipalities have no problem with a legal track. However, logistically, it is a nightmare. Those that are doing that petition drive will find this out the hard way. I wrote a long response on legal track issues a while back (even longer than this one) that anyone can look up if they want. Even if they are successful, street racing will continue. The difference will be that for some, the cost of getting caught will finally burn through that streak of immaturity and irresponsibility hard enough to make them change their behavior. Others will simply pay the increasingly heavy price for their choices.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#25
i fear the disturbing future of laws and restrictions. we're all gonna be driving hybrids before you know it :eek4: goodbye american muscle Confusedad4:
Asad Wrote:There is no replacement for displacement. Plain and fucking simple.
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#26
Never happen. Despite their extremely loud sniveling, the fanatic environmentalists are still a small minority. The pendulum swings back and forth. People get fed up with too many restrictions and vote people out that overstep their boundries. I don't mind the hybrids though, just as long as they don't get in front of me........ Oh, hey look, I finally passed 1,000 posts. Only 1,000 more to go to be an OG.....
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#27
Goddamn post whore...
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#28
Got into a motorcycle accident and I'm stuck at home for a while. (pad)
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#29
Lets all move to Amsterdam! Smile
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#30
Bean Wrote:Lets all move to Amsterdam! Smile

With all the red lights, you would never reach the speed limit........
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#31
All the red lights? Shoot, I'd go into a Coffee shop in the morning and never leave :thumbup
Firefighters walk where the Devil Dances
55 Buick 4dr Led Sled, it finally runs!
89 4runner
65 Sunbeam Tiger
mid 20's Chevy truck
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#32
http://www.streetracing.org/boards/showt...hp?t=96228
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#33
Good luck to you on the petition but I would probably have gone about it a bit differently.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#34
SG you know I got nothing but respect for you so please dont take this the wrong way. I know there is a culture difference and all but in Japan, the cops just dont even pay attention unless it is right in their face. and because of that we still do it, but we do it in a way where we do not disturb people. So we go in the mountains or in industrial areas where no one would get hurt. Now I do understand that in Japan people do not get shot for winning like I heard about in Oakland a couple months ago. Well actually, now that I think about, it can get pretty violent at a streetrace in America.... I guess thats why you guys are tough on it. But dont you think that if you were to maybe loosen the grip a little it would burn down anyway? Does the term " The tighter you squeez, the more slips through the cracks " have any play here? If you have Discovery Channel, Please watch it as I just finnished making a documetry with them about Japanese Streetracing. I think you will appreciate how the cops act in there. Should air in Sept.
Longroof Wrote:..... fix your signature. Its annoying me I tryed to but you seem to have yourself protected well
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#35
Does california use the all lane tactic? In florida, they had a cop car in every lane of I4 doing about 15mph with their flashers on.
[Image: http://www.sromagazine.com/photopost/dat...c00043.JPG]
oldstormowner Wrote:compaired to something like a z300 nissan , a skyline or mazda rx9
and i know skylines are heavy bitches too but there awd makes up for it
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#36
Wraith Wrote:SG you know I got nothing but respect for you so please dont take this the wrong way. I know there is a culture difference and all but in Japan, the cops just dont even pay attention unless it is right in their face. and because of that we still do it, but we do it in a way where we do not disturb people. So we go in the mountains or in industrial areas where no one would get hurt. Now I do understand that in Japan people do not get shot for winning like I heard about in Oakland a couple months ago. Well actually, now that I think about, it can get pretty violent at a streetrace in America.... I guess thats why you guys are tough on it. But dont you think that if you were to maybe loosen the grip a little it would burn down anyway? Does the term " The tighter you squeez, the more slips through the cracks " have any play here? If you have Discovery Channel, Please watch it as I just finnished making a documetry with them about Japanese Streetracing. I think you will appreciate how the cops act in there. Should air in Sept.

You are very right that the circumstances are very different in Japan. I've lived in the Republic of China myself and am very familiar with asian culture (I even marred one) However, the biggest difference is what drives the police to take action against street racing. Law enforcement in the U.S. is driven by majority rule, aka who pays our salaries. If calls pour into a city government or a police agency demanding that action be taken against any particular crime, it is encumbent on the police to do what they are asked to do. If nobody in Japan is complaining loudly to the government that street racing is a problem, then of course the police have better things to do. However, knowing how the government works in Japan, rest assured if there was a public outcry, then the police would be very visible.

Would you have it any other way? What if it was left up to the police to pick and choose what kinds of crimes they wanted to work with no oversight by the public? What if every officer went out on patrol and got to choose what calls they went on, what kinds of enforcement they preferred to take, and what to ignore? What if the majority of officers thought that auto burglary or auto theft was a nothing crime and refused not only to go out and proactively search for burglars and thieves, but wouldn't even respond to a call for service from a victim of a car burglary or theft? What if auto burglary and car theft was ranked by a community as the number one crime, but the police decided they knew better what to work and ignored the wishes of that community? Street racing enforcement in the U.S. is almost exclusively complaint driven. I know very few officers that given the choice would be out doing nothing but looking for street racers.

On the subject of location, if everybody in the bay area chose to race out in the boonies, nobodies property was damaged, nobody crashed and/or got killed/injured, and nobody talked publicly about it, yes there would probably be little scrutiny. But, that isn't what takes place. People race, get hurt, damage property, and then it is made public by the very people who do it, the media, and the victim of the problem children. Then the public go to their government and demand action. Sometimes holding the reins loosely is beneficial. But, sometimes the horse takes off running and you don't have a choice.

By the way, the idiots who do the sideshows in Oakland aren't helping any. Sideshows aren't street racing but they are increasing the scrutiny by everybody every time somebody gets shot, run over, or something bad happens.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#37
Ah...SG, forgot 1 thing, in Japan you can not get your license till your 20, and you have to go to school. It is mandatory. 1 school is 6 months and about 4K$. <--- Mandatory. America should adopt that... see how many want to drive after that lol
Longroof Wrote:..... fix your signature. Its annoying me I tryed to but you seem to have yourself protected well
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#38
20 before you can drive? I love it. Just think of how many accident reports we wouldn't have to take. Parents all over the U.S. would save millions in insurance premiums too. Of course it is easy for me to say that because I got my license at 16, and that was just a few years ago or so....
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#39
With all the money spent on street racing, you could race for real at a track and be safe
No matter what you do , spend or tinker on with your ricer,
IT'S STILL RICE !

NASCAR COMPETITION LICENSE HOLDER and AMA LIFE MEMBER
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#40
Mass transit isnt reliable enough for no driving until 20.
[Image: http://www.sromagazine.com/photopost/dat...c00043.JPG]
oldstormowner Wrote:compaired to something like a z300 nissan , a skyline or mazda rx9
and i know skylines are heavy bitches too but there awd makes up for it
Reply


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