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Some Info On The Track Thing was in the paper...
#1
This was in the paper today. Some more info on how the "fight to get a track" in the bay area is comming along..

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#2
i dont know if its just my computers firewall or something, but i cant see the picture.
Asad Wrote:There is no replacement for displacement. Plain and fucking simple.
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#3
http://www.westcoast6s.com/photos/albums...n00014.jpg
http://www.westcoast6s.com/photos/albums...n00044.jpg
http://www.westcoast6s.com/photos/albums...n00034.jpg
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#4
nice, thanks man.
Asad Wrote:There is no replacement for displacement. Plain and fucking simple.
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#5
hope this gos through
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#6
That's really nice work. I hope you guys get one!
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#7
Yo so where abouts are you guys looking to put teh track?
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#8
Haha that's my friends WS6, interesting stuff
1320SP
Thirteen Twenty Street Performance
[From The Ground Up]
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#9
its sad, that these events(deaths) happen and the city does nothing to resolve it. i know its a complex path to build a track, but in the long run it is the best solution, b/c racing will never just go away. doesnt matter if they raise the penalties or how many people die, racing will not stop.
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#10
pmr, how do you know sol?
yea a lot of us see that as the best solution in the long run, just not the people with the power
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#11
he lived on the next block from me for like the past some odd 12 years
1320SP
Thirteen Twenty Street Performance
[From The Ground Up]
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#12
lol good way to know someone
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#13
i'd say so too haha
1320SP
Thirteen Twenty Street Performance
[From The Ground Up]
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#14
have I met you?
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#15
probably, i'm the guy with the white CRX down the street
1320SP
Thirteen Twenty Street Performance
[From The Ground Up]
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#16
jermaine? (hmm hope I spelled that right...)
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#17
Any updates on your efforts?
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#18
PontiacGrl Wrote:jermaine? (hmm hope I spelled that right...)

you spelled it right and yeah that's me
1320SP
Thirteen Twenty Street Performance
[From The Ground Up]
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#19
SgtGrant Wrote:Any updates on your efforts?
just following up on phonecalls from people who read the article and want to help... hey this is off topic... anyone know what they decided to build out in cyote valley? there's a ton of land for sale but I'm told they dont know if they are putting houses or businesses yet... jeeze my spelling sucks today...lol jermaine, sol says hi :hi:
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#20
yea any updates??
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#21
Coyote Valley has lots of plans for it by the City of San Jose. The majority of the area is planned development. Since land has been running at over a million per acre, I would be surprised if you find anyone with 10-20 million to pony up for a track. And that is assuming there is some area that the City has not already made plans for. There are zoning issues to contend with. I'd guess your better bet would be something already developed that could be multi-use. Here is a good link for you on Coyote Valley: http://www.sanjoseca.gov/coyotevalley/ They will be doing an environmental impact report that scrutinizes the following issues:

"a. Land Use, including agricultural land
b. Transportation and circulation
c. Air Quality
d. Noise
e. Geology and soils
f. Hydrology and flooding
g. Water Supply and quality
h. Vegetation and wildlife
i. Hazardous materials
j. Cultural resources
k. Visual and aesthetic quality
l. Utilities and service systems
m. Energy
n. Availability of public services and facilities."

How to you think a race track will fit into this environmental impact report, especially in the Air Quality and Noise review? Take a look at the maps they have prepared so far and you will see pretty much the entire flat area of the valley has been planned out.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#22
SgtGrant Wrote:Coyote Valley has lots of plans for it by the City of San Jose. The majority of the area is planned development. Since land has been running at over a million per acre, I would be surprised if you find anyone with 10-20 million to pony up for a track. And that is assuming there is some area that the City has not already made plans for. There are zoning issues to contend with. I'd guess your better bet would be something already developed that could be multi-use. Here is a good link for you on Coyote Valley: http://www.sanjoseca.gov/coyotevalley/ They will be doing an environmental impact report that scrutinizes the following issues:

"a. Land Use, including agricultural land
b. Transportation and circulation
c. Air Quality
d. Noise
e. Geology and soils
f. Hydrology and flooding
g. Water Supply and quality
h. Vegetation and wildlife
i. Hazardous materials
j. Cultural resources
k. Visual and aesthetic quality
l. Utilities and service systems
m. Energy
n. Availability of public services and facilities."

How to you think a race track will fit into this environmental impact report, especially in the Air Quality and Noise review? Take a look at the maps they have prepared so far and you will see pretty much the entire flat area of the valley has been planned out.

yea I know the track wouldn't work there, but I was wondering what the plans for it was cause I've heard a lot of different stories. I heard that the reason nothing has been built was A: the residents keep arguing that they dont want buildings and because B: enviornmentalists haven't been satisfied with plans...
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#23
we just need more placed to race damnit...
I spend my lunch money on mods
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#24
Lets re-open the fremont automall track, shoot there is a starbucks, in and out, jamba juice, and costco all right there, what more can you ask for?
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#25
PontiacGrl Wrote:yea I know the track wouldn't work there, but I was wondering what the plans for it was cause I've heard a lot of different stories. I heard that the reason nothing has been built was A: the residents keep arguing that they dont want buildings and because B: enviornmentalists haven't been satisfied with plans...

Yes and no. There aren't too many residents there to complain. Most of the area is agricultural now. But, that environmental impact report is going to take a while and will probably be controversial as they tend to be. The economy is also a factor. If the economy was going strong, the project would be much farther along. It is going to happen though.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#26
twinkie8012 Wrote:its sad, that these events(deaths) happen and the city does nothing to resolve it. i know its a complex path to build a track, but in the long run it is the best solution, b/c racing will never just go away. doesnt matter if they raise the penalties or how many people die, racing will not stop.

Refresh my memory. How did the city become the responsible party for resolving illegal street racing deaths? If I get shot and killed in a drug deal, would the city be responsible for my death and make a "safe zone" for drug trafficing?

I know the comparison is a little extreme, but that is basically what you are saying. Not trying to throw salt in your efforts but Twinkie's comment was a little silly (to me), thats all.

Anyways, good luck with the track thing.
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#27
damn...good to see this is actually going somewhere. i remember a while back a couple years ago someone posted something on these boards about a track being opened near great america area...but nothing ever happened.
CPL NGUYEN-US ARMY
18th Airborne Corps, Dragon Brigade

1990 180SX
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#28
PontiacGrl Wrote:just following up on phonecalls from people who read the article and want to help... hey this is off topic... anyone know what they decided to build out in cyote valley? there's a ton of land for sale but I'm told they dont know if they are putting houses or businesses yet... jeeze my spelling sucks today...lol jermaine, sol says hi :hi:

you have the silver trans right? WHAT'S UP? haven't heard from that guy in forever.
1320SP
Thirteen Twenty Street Performance
[From The Ground Up]
A#
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#29
PMR_004 Wrote:you have the silver trans right? WHAT'S UP? haven't heard from that guy in forever.

yea he's workin a lot now, and his car is down (again) sooo he doesn't get out much lol.


SgtGrant: where do I go to find county owned land? oh and are people that work in law enforcement allowed to sign petitions (off duty)? thanks :thumbup
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#30
Usually any regular map of the area will show what is city and what is county. Usually city land is in one color and the county in another. However, when it comes to a city expanding, a city can use eminent domain to take over county land. In the case of Coyote Valley, I don't believe they are going to go that route but it is a common procedure.

As for petitions, anybody can sign a petition. Would an officer sign one for a track? Maybe. But most astute officers will find out what the general view of the department is so as not to stick out like a sore thumb. That doesn't mean they still wouldn't sign but I'm sure they will do their homework first.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#31
SGTGRANT

Just curious, What is your position and what is the over all position of you department?
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#32
If you do a search on my posts, you will see that I have written pretty extensively on the logistics and philosophy of putting in a track. I don't necessarily have anything against the concept of a track. It is the logistics of putting on in somewhere that I think is problematic. I also have no illusions that it will eradicate street racing. There is a reason that some of our local tracks have not lasted in the past. As for our department, I do not believe we have released an official position. However, if we did, it would be based upon doing some extensive research among other jurisdictions to find out what type of impact a track has had on the ability to deliver police services before, then after the opening of a track. This same type of evaluation is conducted whenever a city asks for our opinion about opening any kind of business that might effect police functions. We probably would not release an opinion on a track until it came down to the city having to make a decision on the approval or denial of a business that was about to take serious steps to start such a venture. Until it is closer to a reality, there really isn't a reason to spend time analyzing all the pro's and con's. However, this is just my opinion, not official policy.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#33
No offense but your talking in circles. You support a track but only in a certain area, but you can't really say that until the city asks your department and only will you take the side of support if the rest of your department comes to agreement. That's what I get out of your response.

See this is the thing that bugs me. So many government agencies/officials take the political route rather than speaking their true feelings. "We don't like street racing but we wont do anything to help the people that want to race legaly."

Look I understand that location for a track is a key ingrediant. You don't want it smack in the middle of downtown San Jose. I understand wanting to keep your job simplified by not having to chase after the jack asses that go street racing right after the track because they did not get their fill or enough passes to race there buddy. But choose a side of the fence. Your going to be chasing down those guys no matter what.
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#34
No circles. You asked my opinion, I referred you to my many posts on the subject, but told you I personally don't have a philosophical problem with it, I just think logistically it won't ever happen. You also intimate that privately all the cops support a track but won't admit it. I will tell you that actually most cops probably don't want the headache of having a track around. This topic though is no different than asking 100 cops about legalizing drugs, who their political party is, Ginger or Mary Ann, or what kind of donut they like best, etc. You will get a different answer from every cop you ask ranging from complete apathy to vehement support or opposition. Then you asked for my agencies stance. I can't speak for the agency. Only the Chief of Police can speak for the entire agency. But, I let you in on how it usually comes about.

Also, putting up a track is no different than starting up any other business. It isn't the job of the police to stick their noses in everyone's business ventures. As with any business that could effect police services, the City Planning Department only comes and solicits our opinion when people actually apply to open a business that might impact us. In fact, 90% of businesses start up with absolutely no input from the police at all. We definitely aren't in the habit of establishing a pre-formed opinion on any business before we've had a chance to see the proposal. Each business would be reviewed on its individual merits. It is impossible to put out a blanket policy statement that either supports a track in any or all forms it might take, or a blanket condemnation of the idea. Until someone actually comes in with land, a blueprint, a business plan, etc., it is just a hypothetical situation. What I tend to see here on SRO is a wishful thinking that somehow a police department is going to throw their weight behind a legal track and that this is going to suddenly be the magical answer. Truth be told, even after all the obstacles are overcome and a track built, the benefits would only be for a small percentage of the population.

I know people on this forum are passionate on the issue. But, you need to realize that for the vast majority of the population, street racing is a passing fad that is no more than an irritant for most citizens, and even a tragedy for some. This is why trying to rally support for a track will never be as popular as say, building a new library or a park. Every community will look to see what is the best bang for the buck. Governments and agencies want to support projects that benefit the largest possible percentage of the community for their money, time, and effort. So, building a track is going to fall squarely on private enterprise. That being the case, don't you think that if it was going to be a successful money making venture, somebody would've jumped on it long ago?
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#35
yes sgt. grant has a very good point...
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#36
SgtGrant Wrote:No circles. You asked my opinion, I referred you to my many posts on the subject, but told you I personally don't have a philosophical problem with it, I just think logistically it won't ever happen. You also intimate that privately all the cops support a track but won't admit it. I will tell you that actually most cops probably don't want the headache of having a track around. This topic though is no different than asking 100 cops about legalizing drugs, who their political party is, Ginger or Mary Ann, or what kind of donut they like best, etc. You will get a different answer from every cop you ask ranging from complete apathy to vehement support or opposition. Then you asked for my agencies stance. I can't speak for the agency. Only the Chief of Police can speak for the entire agency. But, I let you in on how it usually comes about.

Also, putting up a track is no different than starting up any other business. It isn't the job of the police to stick their noses in everyone's business ventures. As with any business that could effect police services, the City Planning Department only comes and solicits our opinion when people actually apply to open a business that might impact us. In fact, 90% of businesses start up with absolutely no input from the police at all. We definitely aren't in the habit of establishing a pre-formed opinion on any business before we've had a chance to see the proposal. Each business would be reviewed on its individual merits. It is impossible to put out a blanket policy statement that either supports a track in any or all forms it might take, or a blanket condemnation of the idea. Until someone actually comes in with land, a blueprint, a business plan, etc., it is just a hypothetical situation. What I tend to see here on SRO is a wishful thinking that somehow a police department is going to throw their weight behind a legal track and that this is going to suddenly be the magical answer. Truth be told, even after all the obstacles are overcome and a track built, the benefits would only be for a small percentage of the population.

I know people on this forum are passionate on the issue. But, you need to realize that for the vast majority of the population, street racing is a passing fad that is no more than an irritant for most citizens, and even a tragedy for some. This is why trying to rally support for a track will never be as popular as say, building a new library or a park. Every community will look to see what is the best bang for the buck. Governments and agencies want to support projects that benefit the largest possible percentage of the community for their money, time, and effort. So, building a track is going to fall squarely on private enterprise. That being the case, don't you think that if it was going to be a successful money making venture, somebody would've jumped on it long ago?
I've been told that over the years, there has been many opportunities for a track in gilroy and even san jose, and at the last minute, the plans are abandoned. is this true or just something people are telling me?
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#37
PontiacGrl Wrote:I've been told that over the years, there has been many opportunities for a track in gilroy and even san jose, and at the last minute, the plans are abandoned. is this true or just something people are telling me?

ide like to know also
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#38
Well, I think where that might come from is the speculation on SRO and elsewhere of places that people think would make a good track. I've seen many suggestions of Reid-Hillview Airport over by Eastridge. Since the residents around the airport routinely complain about the noise and danger, and the fact that the airport technically never closes, that this spot isn't ever going to fly, so to speak. I guarantee you that the pilots and airplane owners there would be totally opposed to the abuse that the runway would suffer from constant racing. Not to mention that the ariport would have to close down during the races. Then you have folks suggesting various big parking lots around the area. Once again, the owners of the lots would probably have a heck of a time getting insurance for a racetrack, not to mention permits allowing it. Some folks have pointed out open fields all over the area. Most of these are owned by private people and either farm them, or are watching the price skyrocket. Since the owner of any bare land could make millions selling to a developer, I suspect a track on any open land around S.J. is highly unlikely. Then you have Moffet Field. It is a federal facility and a track is not going to happen there.

The bottom line is, if you look at most racetracks that host large scale racing, they were usually built in an area far from the densely populated areas. If the track is now near a city or town, it probably wasn't when it was built. And, if a city expanded to the point that the track was now surrounded by the city, then the track probably sold out because of the value of the land. This is basically part of the reason the Fremont raceway closed. So, if you wanted to see some kind of professional track built, you'd probably have to look outside of the populated areas near a large highway, and in an area where land was still reasonably cheap. Something along the lines of Patterson on Hwy 5 or a similar area.

But, let's say somebody got funding and got organized to build a track in this type of area. What would the complaint be from SRO type folks? It is too far. It costs too much to drive there and then race. As a result, the new track would be occupied by high dollar sponsored racers or full pro teams and big media events. One simply has to look around now to see how many people on SRO actually take the time to drive to the existing tracks to see that a track somewhere in the central valley, or down south of Gilroy, or somewhere else where land is cheap isn't going to change the majority from doing what they are doing now. We've already pretty much ruled out Coyote Valley. That only leaves the area around Livermore/Pleasanton/Dublin. That area has seen bare land shoot up to unaffordable prices. If you move over to Tracy, how far do you think San Jo folks would be willing to drive? There is an oval track on Altamont Pass that is very famous. It closed down for many years. Why? Lack of participation. People thought it was "too far out of the way", not to mention the Hells Angels killed a guy at a Stones concert there.

That leaves the Hollister area. There is an offroad park already there and this would be only about an hour drive. But, would people be willing to drive an hour? Since there is a raceway in Santa Cruz, albeit a dirt oval now, maybe you could talk them into an asphalt dragstrip. But, once again, it is an hour drive down there. Can you see the difficulties here? It isn't that putting a track in is some kind of undesirable goal. It's kind of like saying "I want to end world hunger". Nobody would argue against that goal, but the accomplishment of it is another story. There are no doubt lots of people in the past that have gone around and started asking people about the possibility of putting a track in. I tend to believe that once they saw all the obstacles they had to overcome, reality set in and the best intentions were abandoned. There is probably a lot of wishful thinking going on too. It is much easier to lay the blame on some kind of government conspiracy than simply accept the fact that opening up a business is extremely costly and difficult, 90% of them fail in the first year, and street legal car racing just isn't as popular as people on this forum want to believe. Now, if you are talking NASCAR, that is a different story. But I don't think the goal of you folks is a NASCAR track.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#39
Governments and agencies want to support projects that benefit the largest possible percentage of the community for their money, time, and effort.

At one point, I was starting to work with a group of people in the Salinas area for a nonprofit track. I wanted all the proceeds to go back in to either their public library, their schools or prevention programs. I think if you could market a track that way you would have a lot more public and government support.

I unfortunately had to stop my efforts to focus on a new job I took. I would be very interested in trying to get this going again. This would require a nonprofit org, but I think it could be done.
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#40
I'd say give it another shot. Do you think San Jo area folks would drive to Salinas though? Maybe they would, hard to say.
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.

Elmer Davis
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#41
I know a lot of people I've talked to would rather drive an hour to go to a track than 3 or whatever it takes to get to sac... but I guess when it comes down to it, people could change their minds....
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